Squee update

[msmemory_archive]

For those of you I've tortured since lunchtime, the news may now be given: Justin and I have been invited to join Lochleven, and have accepted with delight. We're looking forward to deepening our friendships with them, and participating fully in the household (beyond having been their Guests at the last few Pennsics).

Squeee!

Comments

[new-man.livejournal.com]

Because that's how the feudal system works.

[tpau]

yes, but the SCA doesn't really do the feudal system that way...

[new-man.livejournal.com]

No -- some people in the SCA don't do the feudal system that way. Some do.

Justin (maybe and Caitlin; I don't remember) had students in the past whom I thought were part of Silverwing, despite no direct connection to Steffan. I could be misremembering... or things could have changed.

[jducoeur]

No, absolutely not -- Steffan doesn't even particularly *know* half our dependents, and none have ever been members of Silverwing. In that respect we're specifically different from, eg, VDK, which tends to explicitly aggregate fealty in this way.

Besides, I dispute the "how it works" assertion -- the proposition that "the vassal of my vassal is *not* my vassal" is, AFAIK, a reasonably period concept. In reality, it can become complex (both in period and in the SCA), but there's nothing particularly automatic about such a relationship affecting one's dependents. The feudal system in period was largely about fairly nuanced and specific contracts -- if anything, the SCA tends to oversimplify things...

[baron-steffan.livejournal.com]

Let it be recognized that "household" can mean many different things. I've described what Silverwing is there for. I'm in another household myself, with another purpose: Ancaster. One might say it's my household in the sense that the term is usually used in the SCA. For one thing, they're the guys I camp with. But then, Ancaster itself is a consortium of members representing Silverwing, Schola Lucernae, Wishford Hall, Lockwood, VDK, and several other households from Bridge and Endewearde.

The relevant point here is that neither jducouer's and msmemory's other household connections, nor the activities of their dependents, are affected in any way by their membership in Silverwing. Their households -- Silverwing, Windsmeet, Lochleven -- all serve different purposes.

[tpau]

or i guess mroe specifically... we do not do the feudal system. I am not in fealty to her and never will be...

[new-man.livejournal.com]

From the outside, you're in fealty to her. As her protege, people would describe you as a feudal dependent, regardless of what oaths you've sworn or not.

[tpau]

ah. that is unfortunate.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

She is in my service, not in fealty to me, by mutual agreement. But I understand that claiming the title and belt of a protegee makes people believe she's in fealty.

[new-man.livejournal.com]

Right -- I absolutely understand that, and I understandf why Tpau's not in fealty to you. But people will describe her as a 'feudal dependent' as a catch-all phrase. She is your protege; proteges are feudal dependents. Therefore...

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Quack.

[fairdice.livejournal.com]

Interesting! Back when Fiammetta and I were "the apprentices", I don't think there was any feeling of feudal relationship -- though of course we didn't see it from the outside, so maybe I just didn't notice.

But they were pre-peerage back then. Perhaps that made the relationship clearly outside the feudal structure? (Not to mention that the society changes over 15+ years.)

[new-man.livejournal.com]

(Hi Gwydden!)

It was actually you two I was thinking of. I had a distinct impression that you were 'Silverwing' by dint of the fact that you were apprenticed to Justin.

[liamstliam.livejournal.com]

Some people might.

I certainly do not look at my proteges that way.

Although, I do see them as having a connection to Silverwing.