Crown

[msmemory_archive]

I love this kingdom, I really do. But sometimes I do get wry amusement from it.

About 10 days ago, which was early, I received my spreadsheet with the roster of Crown List entrants, so that I can prepare my Order of Precedence march of combattants. It was 29 lines, which was 30 fighters (one combattant couple, as usual). Looking it over, I discovered that half a dozen of the "usual suspects" weren't there, so I created entries for them, figuring I can toss out the extra cards if the Crown doesn't opt those fighters in at the last minute.

Just now, someone leaked a list of the entrants on a household list, forwarded from one of the shire lists. 43 names. Including some but not all of my "missing" fellows, and a couple of people I'd heard through the grapevine had submitted letters of intent but had not confirmed. Snicker. I'll bet that list is slightly longer yet before the day.

Now, personally, I'd be all in favor of doing as several (most?) of the other kingdoms do, and posting the list of entrants a week or two before the tournament. Surprise only goes so far - and a posted roster would cut down on the nudging and whispers. Then it could be all corrected and updated before the tournament day, too. I know the secrecy thing hearkens back to the First Tournament years, when a fighter did not have to announce his inspiration's identity until his victory, and I'm enough of a traditionalist to respect that, but I think there is also much to be said for proclaiming as a joyous announcement who the contestants will be, both combattants and consorts.

Comments

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

I'm personally in favor of that as well.
Random thoughts:
I'm excited about the prospect of 43 names. Is that combattants only or couples? If the former (which I'm guessing, since it's an odd number) that is so cool. I love Crowns best when they start with hordes of fighters. I doubt that many people will show up, but I can hope, right?
I may on crack, but I seem to remember back in ye Olde Days, when I first started in An Tir, it was a fighter's responsibility to know their own Precedence. There were no LoI's, so people just signed in and then lined up. Everyone knew sort of who was around them, and i'm assuming if there was a serious quibble, there was a herald handy with a printout of the OP. I'm totally not willing to get into a pro/anti-LoI discussion today (or most days, really, because I've had it 39487239 times and it tires me) but does it seem like this system (where YOU have to do minimal work) would even work? I mean, I saw it work from the outside (and I remember seeing some Crowns in An Tir that were heeyoooge) but does it seem remotely feasible to have the fighters take some responsibility?

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

You know, you make a good point that it should be more open. As a trusted officer, do you think you could get it before Curia?

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

I suspect that now, after years and years of having msmemory be the...um, memory... of the East kingdom, people would panic. Mass hysteria. Cats and dogs, living together. Now it seems that once you get people in line, they know more or less which clump they belong in, and Caitlin herds the end of the lime (dukes, counts, etc), and Justin cattleprods the rest into shape... it doesn't take terribly long.

Now, I really like having the lists published ahead of time. The speculation is a lot more fun if you have an idea of who is actually fighting, as opposed to who might be fighting.

[herooftheage.livejournal.com]

I know the secrecy thing hearkens back to the First Tournament years, when a fighter did not have to announce his inspiration's identity until his victory, and I'm enough of a traditionalist to respect that

I gotta tell you, it caused problems back then too, and I've always thought it was a pretty poor idea.

Uhm, I'm on the list, yes? Not that I expect great things from fighting in this crown, but I am interested in participating.

[ornerie.livejournal.com]

in AnTir, the lists are totally open. no letter of intent, the fighters sign up the morning of, and line themselves up (makes for a good long time of standing around)

we will have 100 fighters sometimes.

every now and then someone suggests asking for letters of intent, etc and for the most part, people act like theyre being asked to eat babies :)

heh :). you hsoul dhave heard the hue and cry when they started requiring memberships! OMG!!!!

AnTir is funny :)

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

You are on the longer version of the list, and had been one of my insertions :)

[calygrey.livejournal.com]

The Quintavia list sent out a list of 43 names this morning. Likely the one you got?

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

The peers all know where they belong. They're the easy part of the line. What usually gets fouled up is some relative newcomer, or immigrant, who shows on my list as having no awards but has an AOA or Grant from someplace else.

Trust me, once upon a time I walked up to a pair of knights and said "You guys were both knighted the same day. Who was first?" and oh you betcha they knew.

43 is not an unlikely number. We've had up to 65 in my memory.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

I do not think there exists a law about it presently. Tradition could be changed at the whim of the crown, right swanduchess?

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Yep, that's my "43" list.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Looking at Kingdom Law, there is nothing said that the List must be kept secret. So the King and Queen would just have to choose to release it, and that would be that.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Which is what I said to goldsquare just a minute ago. Perhaps swanduchess will see this conversation and think about doing so.

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

There is no law on the topic, at this time. Tradition has the advantage of maleability. I just wonder if it is worth discussing at Curia, either to produce a law, or to create a groundswell of interest in changing the tradition. Maybe there are better ways to do that.

Thanks for mentioning swanduchess, whose LJ I did not know existed. (She's a very gifted writer, and while I think deliberately arch, I enjoyed the references I got. Added to my "friends-reading-list".)

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Great minds and all that. ::nods::

I'm flashing back to organizing the paperwork for N&A's Coronet tourney, and yelling at people from not getting in all their paperwork, and dealing with the Seneschal (who I don't think we liked....?) and comaprig notes on who gaves us what paperwork and who gave her what paperwork... good times.

If by "funny" you mean "awesome"

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

See, I knew I was remembering right. Every single other Kingdom I've lived in they look like you like you've got extra eyeballs if you even suggest that Crown can work without an LoI.

[citrine-moon.livejournal.com]

Lucan posted the list of 43 to the Armour Archive yesterday.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65584

I dunno why it wasn't sent to SCA East ro anything, but it is out there.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

It'd be really cool if he'd included the names of the consorts, as well.

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Are there any deadlines involved in this process, which potential combattans are missing?

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

No sh**. Who is Alaric fighting for?

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Nataliia

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

Heh. Cool.
I wonder if the Tribune is "for serious" this time.

(See, this is already more fun.)

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

I doubt it, since it would be for a Pennsic reign. I suspect his entering has to do with another name on that list, who I am surprised to see.

Re: If by "funny" you mean "awesome"

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

To me, it's the First Test. If you can't get your act together enough to send in a piece of papaer that says "I just can't wait to be king," it implies heavily that you can't get your act together enough to run the kingdom.

[katherine-barr.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed putting together the Crown lists. Most of the difficulties come in when an entrant gives their letter of intent to either the Seneschal or the Crown, and not to both. It was much worse when the letters only went to the royalty, and the seneschal would not receive the letters from the royalty until shortly before Crown. And now, with letters of intent accepted by email, it is even easier.

The one draw back to posting the list ahead of time may be resolving outstanding membership issues. But again, with membership purchase available on-line and the seneschal's ability to now access the database directly, it may be possible.

Re: If by "funny" you mean "awesome"

[metageek.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure the West doesn't require LoIs, either. I seem to remember hearing that they would routinely get, say, 160 participants.

By contrast, the first Crown I went to was in Atlantia. There were something like 13.