Crown

[msmemory_archive]

I love this kingdom, I really do. But sometimes I do get wry amusement from it.

About 10 days ago, which was early, I received my spreadsheet with the roster of Crown List entrants, so that I can prepare my Order of Precedence march of combattants. It was 29 lines, which was 30 fighters (one combattant couple, as usual). Looking it over, I discovered that half a dozen of the "usual suspects" weren't there, so I created entries for them, figuring I can toss out the extra cards if the Crown doesn't opt those fighters in at the last minute.

Just now, someone leaked a list of the entrants on a household list, forwarded from one of the shire lists. 43 names. Including some but not all of my "missing" fellows, and a couple of people I'd heard through the grapevine had submitted letters of intent but had not confirmed. Snicker. I'll bet that list is slightly longer yet before the day.

Now, personally, I'd be all in favor of doing as several (most?) of the other kingdoms do, and posting the list of entrants a week or two before the tournament. Surprise only goes so far - and a posted roster would cut down on the nudging and whispers. Then it could be all corrected and updated before the tournament day, too. I know the secrecy thing hearkens back to the First Tournament years, when a fighter did not have to announce his inspiration's identity until his victory, and I'm enough of a traditionalist to respect that, but I think there is also much to be said for proclaiming as a joyous announcement who the contestants will be, both combattants and consorts.

Comments

Re: If by "funny" you mean "awesome"

[hrj.livejournal.com]

Westerners would have a reaction similar to the An Tirian one mentioned above, i.e., equivalent to baby-eating. 160 certainly isn't routine, though, unless you're counting both combattants and consorts. The really really memorable crown lists here have broken 100 combattants, and those usually involved reigning during some important anniversary or notable event (e.g., hiving off of new kingdoms).

I'm of the same mind as the comment two nodes up (sorry -- can't see the poster while in reply mode) who sees LOIs as a "first test", except that I've said that about the membership requirement. And yet somehow you still got Mr. Megaduke showing up the morning of with a photocopy of a fax record to the membership office dated that morning asking for special exceptions. (This was back before "instant membership" was a technological possibility.)

Precedence

[metageek.livejournal.com]

when I first started in An Tir, it was a fighter's responsibility to know their own Precedence

I seem to remember hearing (back around 1993) that the Southwestern Kingdoms (and, yeah, I'm probably overgeneralizing here) tended to have Grand Processions, in which everybody at a feast would line up in order of precedence. Was that true in An Tir? I imagine such a custom would fix everyone's precedence in their own minds quite effectively.

The context I heard this in makes a good story. I was living in Ponte Alto, Atlantia, and someone...call her Romana...was telling us about her trip to...I think it was the Outlands. She was going to be going to their Twelfth Night, I think it was. Another Atlantian she knew...call him Fred...had arranged with the King of Atlantia to carry his greetings to the King of the Outlands...which, in Fred's mind, made him an Ambassador. (Ominous music here.) When Fred heard she was going to be there, too, he said something like, "Oh, nice, we can both be Ambassadors!" Romana made polite noises, but apparently he took it seriously.

So, at the event, when the locals were lining up for the Grand Procession, Fred came along and grabbed Romana to join him...at the front of the line, since, as Ambassadors, they represented the Crown of Atlantia, and therefore ranked ahead of everybody except the King. (I suppose an Ambassador could even claim that he ranked ahead of a King from a younger Kingdom; but, fortunately, Fred didn't have the opportunity.) So there they were, not dressed up all that much (hard to fit an Elizabethan gown in carryon luggage), standing in front of all the Dukes and Duchesses of the Outlands, who were looking at them and asking what they thought they were doing. Why, they weren't even wearing circlets!

Romana was not happy with Fred. I gather, though, that he was too oblivious to notice, and thought he'd given her a wonderful treat.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Inter-kingdom anthro time. In the West, the heralds aren't involved in this at all. The Lists office gets the list to the Crown, the Crown determines if anyone is not suitable (rare), and then determines which of the unbelted fighters will be moved to the belted list for the first round challenges. Interesting that someone has a list of who's fighting before the event. I think here in the West a bunch of fighters decide if they're entering the morning of the tourney. <g>

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

The largest Crown Tournament List in the Wet Kingdom was over 120 combattants. Whew. It's now down to about 65 (give or take for any specific Crown Tournament of course). Much easier on everyone involved. The few times we got to over 100 the tournament lasted until after the sun went down.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Sigh. That should be "West Kingdom", although there are times the typo is so accurate it's painful.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Same for the West, although I suspect you already had a good idea that was the case. <g>

[palegreyminion.livejournal.com]

And now, with letters of intent accepted by email, it is even easier.

Absolutely! Twice a year profesorpulls out his old email, updates the date and sends it off to trh@eastkingdom.org and seneschal@eastkingdom.org again. Takes all of about 3 seconds. We love being able to submit via email.

[ornerie.livejournal.com]

yep, the west is funny too ;)
and I wouldnt have it any other way!

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Yepper. I think our fighters are happy with the way it works ...

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

In Northshield for the Coronet tourneys, we required The Letter, copies of membership cards for both, copy of the front and back of the auth card for the fighter, proof they got the Pale (Midrealm Newsletter) and proof that they got the Northwatch (Northshield newsletter). Some people, in the interest of covering their butts, also sent in copies of their IDs, which resulted in embarassing happy birthday phone calls from the road.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Gadzooks. I know that fighters (and consorts) in the West must show proof of membership the day of the tournament (and that goes for the Principalities as well), but that does seem a bit much to me ...

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Well, I need the list to compose the now-traditional (10 years or so?)procession of entrants. I'm real darn good, but I wouldn't want to do it on the fly if I could help it. Though I admit parsedgarnish and I were showing off at each other by practicing ordering the local tourney entrants last Sunday.

Up until now, I've been obliged to keep the list confidential. Now that His RM has posted the list, I think I might just get 'em sequenced and tell the fighters where they should stand in line, in advance.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Well, we don't actually do a procession, with our lists being as large as they tend to be, it would take a long day and make it even longer. But then we don't require letters of intent, either, so ...

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Sis!

[baronessv.livejournal.com]

I had to go through Sources to figure out who you meant. But yes, I see now.

So what do we think? Will Gryff be in the finals again?

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

Well, and that's one of my bugaboos. Isn't it for the consorts that we are even doing this???? I think we have been pulling further and further away from that and that's kind of sad.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Possibly.... I think is pretty wide open, actually.

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

I've gotten that feeling around here (The East), too. If Pax wins, I feel secure that you will do your best to bring the trend back around.

[artisticphoenix.livejournal.com]

We try very hard at Crown to make sure that everyone knows - it is about the ladies. I fence, not for my own agrandizement, but for the THE Queen. It is by her grace that I do well.

And I scare people with the thought of Pax winning. :-)

[gwendolynbasing.livejournal.com]

I, for one, am annoyed. Not even those in my own house know who is on these lists! It always used to be so that you would have no unfair advantage.... I guess everyone wanted to make my last Crown Tourney as Kingdom Mistress of Lists memorable. Never before, to my knowledge, has the list been published/leaked prior to Crown Tourney.
We'll have to see if it makes any difference.

[parsedgarnish.livejournal.com]

Speaking of which, the list on armor archive is all willy-nilly!!
Thank goodness you're there to tidy that up. :)

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

I don't understand. How is making the list public giving someone an unfair advantage?

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

One could prepare for opponents' known weaknesses. One could decide whether to enter based on knowing who else is entering (spoiling).

Preparing for Crown

[metageek.livejournal.com]

One could prepare for opponents' known weaknesses.

Sounds pretty theoretical; with that many participants, focusing on one particular weakness seems like it'd be counterproductive, since it'd rob you of more generalized practice.

One could decide whether to enter based on knowing who else is entering (spoiling).

Another way to look at it: If Sir A genuinely believes that Sir B would not make a suitable King, then it is A's duty, by his oath of fealty, to stop B by any honorable means he can. Trying to beat him in Crown sounds like it should qualify.

The fact that Sir C may have dishonorable motives to stop Sir D is regrettable, but not reason enough to prevent A from doing his duty.

And another thing...

[metageek.livejournal.com]

Before the spread of the Internet, making the list public might have given unfair advantage to those who got a chance to see it; but, now, the list can be available to everybody, which levels the playing field.