Papers, bitte

[msmemory_archive]

Eish. They've started checking IDs on the Green Line. Apparently, if you are innocent, you are not supposed to mind.

Comments

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

I have not heard what happens if you don't have ID. What if you're under 16, and not eligible for a driver's license or state ID? What if you are from abroad and not carrying your passport with you daily, or it has expired? Or from out of state and didn't know?

What if you do produce ID and they don't like what it says?

We all heard about people stopped for "driving while black" a couple years ago - now it sounds like you'd better not be taking the subway while Middle Eastern.

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

What if you don't have a driver's license? I ran into this a number of times (I got my license "late", at 21). People wouldn't believe who I was. As if a piece of plastic is more me than *me*. Sigh.

The right of police to demand your ID is currently before SCOTUS, if I remember correctly...or did we already lose this one?

Maybe I'll start making up "SUSPECTED TERRORIST" buttons and handing them out on the Green line. We are all, now, suspected terrorists.

[dsrtao]

The right of police to demand your ID is currently before SCOTUS, if I remember correctly...or did we already lose this one?

Hiibol vs Nevada. In progress, currently.

Even if I have ID, I will refuse to identify myself without an adequate reason from the officer in question.

[alexx-kay.livejournal.com]

Have you given some thought to what you would accept as "adequate reason"? They're unlikely to have warrants. Personally, I am finding "I am a big scary man with a gun and the (practical, though perhaps illegal) power to arrest you" argument to be fairly compelling. I'm still mulling over where to draw the line between personal comfort and important civil disobedience on this one...

[dsrtao]

Yes, I have. The officer should clearly state the reason for the request for identification, the reason I am being stopped, and whether he/she suspects me of any crimes (and if so, what, exactly), or what events I am thought to have witnessed.

I am a big nice man who, if carrying a gun, is doing so legally. Arrest is a very important line to cross. The police only have what powers we give them; the power to coerce identification is extremely limited.

[umbran.livejournal.com]

What if you are from abroad and not carrying your passport with you daily, or it has expired?

My memory on this is spotty, but while I don't recall that foreign nationals are required to have their passport with them at all times, with only a few exceptions (Canadians being the first that pops to mind) they are supposed to have a currently valid passport, and have been so required for decades. As far as I recall, if they're here with an expired passport, they're inviolation of the law.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Right, they are in violation of the law if their passports expire. Are the MBTA police now going to enforce immigration laws? What if my driver's license is expired? Is it still valid ID? What if my name is Muhammad al-Zahira?

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Right, they are in violation of the law if their passports expire. Are the MBTA police now going to enforce immigration laws?

Hey, I didn't say it would be a smart or efficient way to go about things. You asked a simple question - What if you're from abroad and your passport has expired? - as if this should be some form of excuse that we should let off. It isn't. Foreign nationals who have let their documents expire aren't due any special sympathy or leniency.

If your driver's license has expired, then technically, it is not still a valid ID. That begs the real question. We shouldn't be asking, "What if there's an inconvenience associated with my ID?" We should be asking if this is legal or right at all. And that is currently being addressed by the courts. In difficult times, sometimes patience is required.

I'm terribly sorry that you feel put upon and inconvenienced by being asked by an officer to show ID. But on the scale of draconian possibilities, this is small potatoes.

Folks here tend to forget that freedom isn't easy, quick, instant gratification. Freedom is hard work and hard thinking. We are faced with threats that defy our normal systems. I'm terribly sorry that coming up with sane policy that satisfies the conflicting public needs, public wants, and public rights takes some time and trial and error.