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[msmemory_archive]

Totally fluffy Trek question: what happens to pon farr now?

ETA: Comments are likely to include spoilers. Click at your own risk!

Comments

[alphaggek.livejournal.com]

Ya know, that's a very good question...

Do they decrease the interval so they go into pon farr every year, every month, or what?

And no, I won't say _why_ they would have to :)

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Even aside from the frequency issue - what about the reduced population? Seems like a lot more interspecies contact will have to happen.

[alphaggek.livejournal.com]

Exactly why they need to increase the frequency. They need to increase the population :)

[crosslet.livejournal.com]

While anything is possible in SciFi, interspecies breeding can lead to sterile offspring (e.g. mules). However, I don't think they ever implied Spock was sterile it might not be an issue.

Conversely, I'd assume the cross breed would probably exclude females.

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

I don't know what the total canonical view of pon farr is these days, so I don't think I can hazard a guess. It probably got expanded in some of the series that I didn't watch much of (Voyager, mostly.)

[tpau]

iwould hazard to guess that since it is biochemical it happesn as before every 7 years. but it sin't liek Vulcan's can't and don't breed at other times...

[kimbari.livejournal.com]

Good question, but I don't see why any aspect of it might change. We saw in Amok Time that things (heh-heh) are a little different with Spock because he's half human, so let's see what's out there. ;)

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

My gut response? Who cares, I hated T'Pring anyway and I get the impression the betrothal must not have occurred in the new timeline. I must admit that after about five minutes of "YOU CAN'T BLOW UP VULCAN BRING IT BACK BRING IT BACK!" I finally thought "You know, I hated T'Pring anyway, like all good Spock fangirls, hey at least THAT'S over with." I believe I may have even emitted a small "Yay!" And then it, um, became clear that in the new timeline Spock likely wasn't betrothed in the first place, not that it matters now if he was.

But to answer your question, I think the answer is some combination of cloning and assisted reproduction. One would presume the best scientists in the Federation can figure out how to jimmy the lock on their own reproductive problems. I hope they have uterine replicators!

[tpau]

they were betrothed when they were 7 or so, why would they not be in the new timeline?

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

I know that, but based on what I saw of him in the new timeline, he didn't seem the sort to have had a traditional betrothal and then have gone and gotten himself into a nice little Starfleet Academy romance, and either a) be hiding the betrothal or b) actually have told her "oh by the way I'm betrothed to this Vulcan chick back home, so you know, every seven years..."

I am also hoping that in this new timeline, this was one area where Amanda was all, "Look, my kid is not going to make a commitment like THAT at the age of 7!" And that, Madame T'Pau, is purely wishful thinking on my part but I'm quite enjoying imagining it that way thankyouverymuch.

[tpau]

nothign wrong with wishful thinking, i jsut wasn't sure what you were basing it on :)

the Uhura thing was... meh i hate it loads. but that is because to me it is all about Uhura + Scotty = otp and Spock + CHapel = otp...

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

Hee! *grin* This conversation is reminding me again why I had missed Star Trek in my life.

I am not a member of either of those traditional OTP shipper groups, but I can TOTALLY understand them. I had an interesting response to this new Spock + Uhura thing. First I didn't detect it from their conversations and her justification for him reassigning her.

Then I figured she was just overexcited when she kissed him in the lift, and he was taking it as an expression of sympathy and not going to do anything about it because there was already enough going on.

And then, there they were on the transporter pad and I thought, "Get your hands off her ass, boy, you're in public!"

And then I thought, at the director, "REALLY, J J? You're really gonna do this?"

And then I realized how adorable their kids would be, and I was hooked.

*shrug* That's how I work.

[tpau]

you know, i had exactly that same series of reactions! up to the kids part :)

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying they _have_ to! I'm just saying I know potential for serious hybrid vigor when I see it!

[baron-steffan.livejournal.com]

OTP ???

Acronym Definition
OTP One Time Password
OTP One Time Programmable (electronics)
OTP On-Time Performance
OTP One Time Pad
OTP Over Temperature Protection
OTP On the Phone (chat)
OTP Open Trading Protocol (for purchasing)
OTP Open Telecom Platform
OTP Opioid Treatment Program
OTP Opposite Track Path (DVD mastering system)
OTP Over the Phone
OTP Outside the Perimeter (people living outside the I-285 perimeter of Atlanta, GA)
OTP Offer to Purchase
OTP One True Pairing
OTP Office of Telecommunications Policy
OTP One-Trick Pony (Paul Simon song/album)
OTP Oregon Transportation Plan
OTP Bucharest, Romania - Otopeni (Airport Code)
OTP Order to Pay
OTP Orlando Theatre Project (Orlando, FL)
OTP Odznaka Turystyki Pieszej (Polish PTTK badge)
OTP Operational Test Piece
OTP Outline Test Plan
OTP On the Piss
OTP Outdoor Therapeutic Program
OTP Operational Test Plan
OTP On the Pause
OTP Operational Test Procedure
OTP Országos Takarék Pénztár (Hungarian: General Saving Bank)
OTP One Team Partner
OTP One True Pair/Pairing (fan fiction, erotica) <== Okay, then!
OTP Operational Trial Period
OTP Overtime Personnel
OTP Openland Tree-Planting
OTP Operations Training Package
OTP Orbital Time Processor
OTP Other Theater Project (Cleveland, Ohio)
OTP Other Trustworthy Person (PEZ collectors)
OTP Operating & Transition Plan
OTP Optional Time Period
OTP Optical Technology Project

[jenwrites.livejournal.com]

One True Pairing

It's a fanfic acronym used by people who believe that there's only one feasible romantic pairing for a pair of characters, and any other pairing is just ridiculous. Generally, it's used facetiously.

[tpau]

otp = one true pairing

[herooftheage.livejournal.com]

Because that is after the destruction of the USS Kelvin, which apparently has some significant effects on the time line outside of what it had on Kirk. For example, you'll notice it had some effects on Sarek, in that his relatiionship with Spock seems to be much better in this timeline.

(Spock is born in 2232, the Kelvin is destroyed in 2233.)

[tpau]

mmm, i had attributed the relationship to jsut different actors really. it did nto seem that much different form the one in the books at least.

from the movie i got the impression that nothign on Vulcan was affected by the destruction of hte Kelvin that much, the ripple of change reached them later...

[herooftheage.livejournal.com]

There's some evidence that things are different on Vulcan - Sarek is there, for example. My loose understanding from the novels is that in TOS timeline, he spends the 2250s on Earth, though of course he could just happen to be home on Vulcan during the arrival of the Narada.

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

I can see Tpau's interpretation, and honestly, the night I saw the movie I think I was interpreting it that way too.

The next morning, though, I woke up very very attached to the interpretation that the changing of the timeline was changing all relationships somewhat, and that you could see this reboot as a new universe in the multiverse created when the Ambassador and Nero and Company came through, and that is sort of what my brain has settled on. It allows me to let the original and this reboot sit as independent but beautifully related entities, in my brain, and that's sort of fun.

Also, it sorta makes Ambassador Spock sound even more like a Time Lord, and that's just awesome.

Options

[metageek.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Options:

• Breeding more often. They might have to fiddle with the biochemistry of pon farr, but that should be possible. On the other hand, maybe the reason pon farr evolved is that pregnancy is unusually hard on Vulcan women.
• Uterine replicators. I don't think I've ever seen them in ST, but I also don't remember seeing any references to pregnancy, which might be because everybody uses uterine replicators.
• Matter replicators. This just requires the writers to bite the bullet and admit that the distinction between holodeck matter and real matter is horseshit. However, the social implications of being able to make copies of people are pretty messy.
• Outbreeding.
• IVF and surrogate mothers. If Amanda can give birth to a half-Vulcan, why not a full Vulcan?
• Genetic engineering to produce a nonsentient creature which grows up quickly and can then act as a surrogate mother for a Vulcan baby. Basically a uterine replicator, but with a side helping of ick.
• Romulans. Variants:
  • Romulans as surrogate mothers.
  • Vulcans marry Romulans. Culture shock, huge opportunities for espionage.
  • Nonconsensual: some desperate Vulcans fly to Romulus and kidnap a bunch of girls to place as brides; the Enterprise gang has to do the Right Thing, even though Spock is thinking, "Ooh...that one's hot.".
• Time travel. Go back in time, find Vulcans who are about to die, save them, and bring them forward. Mind you, this would make a bad story, because it has a gaping plot hole: "If you can do that, why can't you go save the planet?".
• Patience. At the moment, the survivors' biggest problem isn't their low population; it's the fact that their homes are gone. Having lots of kids is just going to make that worse.

Re: Options

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

Yup, those are the options! I'm a Bujold fan. I want there to be uterine replicators in as much science fiction as possible goshdarnit!

Re: Options

[metageek.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I want uterine replicators in real life, certainly; but they make solving the Vulcan Problem too easy. Remember Bujold's standard tool: asking herself, "What's the worst thing I can do this character?. I'd rather see the Vulcans work at it, and have to discard the easy solutions because they're unethical.

Re: Options

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

That is a very good point! And it would be fun to watch them slog through it. Where by fun I mean a very painful to watch sort of fun, perhaps. But fascinating!

Re: Options

[tpau]

i am a bujold fan and hte URs bother me on some fundamental level as does her treatment of htem.

Here, i honestly think they will jsut have babies lots, it never said they ONLY mated during on farr, jsut they had to then...

i do like the reintegration of romulans thing though

Re: Options

[jducoeur]

Matter replicators. This just requires the writers to bite the bullet and admit that the distinction between holodeck matter and real matter is horseshit.

We won't have replicators/holodecks for some years yet. (Even if you consider the cartoons and their relatively primitive holodecks to be canon...)

Re: Options

[metageek.livejournal.com]

True. On the other hand, for Vulcans, the time from TOS to TNG is about a generation.

Besides, if Spock I points out the possibility, some bright spark might invent it earlier—especially if there are replicators on the Jellyfish.

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

Nothing.

One presumes that an advanced civilization already had birth control, and other medications.

But: I always interpreted Pon Farr, as "Now, I gotta". But nothing in the show ever suggested they couldn't have sex whenever they wanted.

(Why would Amanda have married a man she could only have sex with once every 7 years?)

It could happen

[metageek.livejournal.com]

(Why would Amanda have married a man she could only have sex with once every 7 years?)

I wouldn't entirely rule it out, if she loved him. Maybe he's got good hands. Or maybe he lets her have a concubine between times.

Re: It could happen

[digitalemur.livejournal.com]

Or maybe he lets her have a concubine between times.

Matriarchal society FTW!

Which isn't directly related to females having female concubines, but it's still what I thought.

Re: It could happen

[metageek.livejournal.com]

I wasn't assuming the concubine was female, although I suppose it could be.

[hfcougar.livejournal.com]

I am commenting without viewing the other comments to remind you that someone has actually released a fragrance for women called Pon Farr.

Scary.

I really wanted it, despite not even knowing what it smells like, until it occurred to me to wonder whether I actually want to smell like someone who only gets laid once every seven years.

[jenwrites.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that Old Spock is thinking he's gonna get a lot of Vulcan tail. At least, that's the subtext I saw when he shoved Young Spock back onto the Enterprise and said he'd take care of helping rebuild the race. "Run along now, young me. The ladies await."

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

And I didn't think of that aspect until I read your comment!

I was picturing lots of genetic crosses/uterine replicators and soliciting DNA from the Vulcan Diaspora members on a grand scale.

[jenwrites.livejournal.com]

I like mine better :)

Although to be honest, I doubt they'll let Spock contribute to the gene pool, what with how racist so many of his people are.

[baron-steffan.livejournal.com]

Oh, good question.

The new film was a good ride (and yes, seeing it at the Jordan's IMAX was the only way) but unlike everyone else, I'm not totally in love with it. Let's face it: the mythos was severely raped re-written, and given past history, there's every reason to expect they're not going to screw with this continuity either, for what it's worth.

More, soon, on my own journal.

[baron-steffan.livejournal.com]

Of course, I meant to say:

"...there's every reason to expect they are going to screw with this continuity as well..."