Next project

[msmemory_archive]

OK, on to the next thing. I need a new car. At least, new to me. Candidate makes and models include Toyota (Prius, Corolla, Matrix), Subaru (Forester, Outback), Chevy something, Saturn something, Honda something. Or something else I haven't thought of.

Must have: mpg comparable to Prism (~30), auto trans, CD, excellent acceleration (I do have to drive in Boston), support system convenient to my home, rear window defrost. I expect to drive it for more than 100,000 miles, so reliability is key.

Comments

Car Talk

[hungrytiger]

We're also buying a new car now, so here's the results of my research. Our top three choices were the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Subaru Legacy (same as the Outback but without some of the off-road stuff and therefore cheaper). It looks like we'll be going for the Subaru Legacy, mostly because it's the only one of those three that comes in a wagon format, which is something we're now concerned about for obvious reasons.

Given what you said about reliability, and assuming that you don't need a wagon, I'll give you the same advice my mechanic gave me... go with a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry (or the Honda Civic/Toyota Corolla if you want something smaller). We've test-driven both and thought very highly of them. They both score at the top of the charts for dependability, which my mechanic echoed. I like Honda better then Toyota due to their internal stylings, but the cars are very similar. The Accord is almost a constant fixture on the Car & Driver Top 10 list.

One thing my research did pick up on though is that you might want to avoid the Saturn. Various reports have said that they test quite poorly for long-term reliability. I chatted with some friends and co-workers who own Saturns and while they do love them, most of them lease their cars and get a new one every 3-4 years so they never encounter the long-term ownership problems that you or I would.

Not that I think you'd have any problems finding info yourself, but here are two sites I found very useful in my search: The J.D. Power Consumer Center and Car & Driver Magazine.

Re: Car Talk

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

A wagon is a definite possibility for us. While we don't have your reasons for wanting one, hauling gear to events, games, and cons would be a nice plus.

Where is there a Subaru dealership in the NW area (Waltham to Stoneham-ish)?

Re: Car Talk

[hungrytiger]

Subaru dealers in the area are:

Cityside Subaru - One Broadway, Arlington
Natick Subaru - 948 Worcester Rd, Natick
Village Subaru - 61 Powdermill Rd, Acton
Subaru of Wakefield - 888 Main St, Wakefield
Car Mart Subaru - 277 Main St, Wilmington
Ira Subaru - 97 Andover St, Danvers
Norwood Subaru - 842 Providence Hwy, Norwood

The model we're probably going to get is the new 35th Anniversary Edition Legacy Wagon.

For the record, you can also get the Ford Taurus in a wagon model, but we gave it a test-drive and it felt like a boat [The Ford Focus wagon is supposed to be much better, but is smaller than we're looking for]. The VW Passat wagon is another possibility, but we're not fond of VWs and given that the car is more expensive and requires premium gas we nixed it

Re: Car Talk

[tpau]

cityside is not so hot, is where i got my forester from.

if you want good milage, go for a hyondai, they are very nice and very inexpencive, and have a very nice warrantee. they are however small.

Re: Car Talk

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

I was quite happy with Wakefield; their prices aren't the best (you'll probably pay $200-300 more there), but their service is definitely tops.

Re: Car Talk

[keshwyn]

Cityside has a bad habit of being thoroughly condescending toward women, however, or at least it did the last time I was foolish enough to go there. :/ In the one test drive and the seven or eight visits I made there while I owned a Subaru, I got talked down to every single time.

I was -markedly- unimpressed by their behavior when I bought my last Subaru - I ended up going to Natick. Natick was OK, but it was really far away from where I am now, so I wasn't so thrilled.

Now I have a Honda Civic from Honda Cars of Boston (Everett) and I love the car. And the service department has yet to condescend to me at all.

[cellio]

Dani is pretty unhappy with his 1999 Saturn. It's needed more maintenance sooner than his previous car, and there are a number of little annoyances that he didn't realize during the test drive and that have grated on him over time. I've driven it a few times and am unhappy with its (lack of) acceleration, but that could just be that I don't know how to optimally drive an automatic.

For what it's worth, I've been very happy with the Mazda I bought new in 1989. There are some annoyances now -- the inside control for popping the hatch broke after about ten years, and the tape deck died a couple years back and I haven't replaced it. But still, it's almost 15 years old. Low mileage (short commute), but nothing has surprised me maintenance-wise. Of course, I don't know how current Mazdas do for reliability and comfort and stuff, but I plan to look at them when the time comes. (Well, assuming they still make a hatchback, a requirement for me.)

[tpau]

i am a great supporter of the HOndas, hyundais and now also the subaru forester. i was not happy with any of hte outback models

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i am a great supporter of the HOndas, hyundais and now also the subaru forester. i was not happy with any of hte outback models <legacy, impreza, etc>
-the honda accord has goin gfor it insane reliability, it is one of the few things you wull see out there in the 19080-1981 edition, still driving with all it's original parts. it is however, huge <longer then the forrester> and rather expencive <in the 18k-22k range>
-the honda civic is tiny, but cheaper <13k or so> unles syou get the hybrid, which goes 60miles ot a galon but costs over 21k
-the hyundai accent is the car i have, and i love it. it is surprisingly bigger then one thinks, i have fit 4 people's worth of pennsic gear and 3 people in it :) itis very reliable, it does 27-36 miles per galon, and it was 10k. it also has the best warrantee out there :)
-the subaru forester is very cool, i like it alot, but it is nto cheap, about 21k. it has a whole lot of useful features standard, such as side airbags and all wheel drive. it is big, but is shorter then an Accord. handles liek a dream.

according to cattalk.com, hondas are the least expencive to own, as they depreciate the slowest, and need less fixing.

civics

[outlander.livejournal.com]

I just got a 2000 civic a few months ago. It ended up being a higher end model than what I had originally intended, and cost a bit more, but it gets great gas milage (30ish in the city, 40ish on highways).

Don't know if it comes in a wagon model, and the size I have is a bit small for hauling stuff to events for more than one person, but good for everyday stuff. Have to invest in appropriatly sized car top carrier for bigger trips.

The prices START at about 12k for a low end civic, and go up to about 18k i believe if you want spiffy features.

Highly recommend buying it through a pre-owned program, as you can get up to a 7 year warranty, and all the things that go with that, as well as knowing there should be very few surprises.

Heather

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

galaneia and I are in the throes of this as well, with similar criteria. A few from our list that aren't on yours, with caveats:

VW Golf/Jetta: milage isn't quite as good. Quality is spotty; if you get a "good one", it's very good, but some have build issues. The TDI, which we can't find for hell or high water, get 50 mph diesel and have excellent torque for those 0-30 mph runs.

Honda Civics: what tpau said.

Subaru: also look at the base Impreza. It's narrow, but the wagon has decent space plus a roof rack. It's the cheapest Subaru, but still "expensive" in this class due to AWD etc.

If you're willing to buy American, the Ford Focus might be on your list. I've heard some good things, some bad.

Cars.com currently has an overview of compact hatchbacks that might help.

[whispercricket]

I'm very happy with my Toyota Echo - great gas mileage, very reliable, much bigger inside than it seems from the outside. I think the Matrix is the Echo in semi-wagon form, but I haven't driven one so I can't say for sure. The trunk is a good size considering that it's a compact car, but I don't know how much gear you want to haul around.

My family used to have Hondas and then switched to Toyotas, but I don't know if that means anything...

[galaneia.livejournal.com]

umm...this got a little longer than I intended. I've broken it up so it might make a little more sense.

I've never driven an Echo, but I have sat in one here at the shop so I'll add this little bit of trivia.

You may not care, but the dashboard has an odd configuration. The whole speedometer/odometer/tachometer assembly has been moved to the side (although it's also been rotated to still face the driver).

So there's great visibility straight down the hood from the driver's seat, but in order to see the instrument panel you have to look off to the right.

[whispercricket]

I really like the different dashboard configuration on the Echo - I feel that it takes less time and effort to check my speed by flicking my eyes down / sideways at an angle than to have to look down inside the steering wheel. However, other people definitely have different opinions, so I highly suggest test driving to see what you think of it (give it a couple of minutes, because it will seem a little odd at first).

I really love the thought that went into the design of the car in general (could give more details if requested, but I don't want to force a long essay on you :) ), but like anything else, it's not right for everyone.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the comments! Keep 'em coming.

No minivans. No Hyundais, and especially no Kias. No Fords. Probably not a PT Cruiser -- even though the aesthetic is funky Roger Rabbit, and it's a hatchback, I haven't heard glowing reviews (though I guess I could ask my two next door neighbors).

[metahacker.livejournal.com]

Fu's sister has a PT. One advantage is that he actually *fits* in it -- but that's a feature you don't need.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

Fu, having ridden in my Geo Prizm a couple times, might disagree :)

PT is a great car

[(Anonymous)]

Not only do I fit in the PT, I fit in the back seat of the PT. Comfortably. I would take a long trip in the back of a PT.

-Fu (for everyone else: 6'5" and proportional.)

[hfcougar.livejournal.com]

I have a '94 Chevy Cavalier that I'm very happy with. It only has 71k miles (I don't drive much), but it's been from Texas to Minnesota twice and I'm confident it will see the hundred mark. It has only one rust spot (the size of a pencil-top eraser) and the only maintenance issue I've had is that I had to replace the alternator back in 2000. I don't know how the latest Cavaliers stack up but the only negative thing I've heard about them is that they're kind of goofy looking.

I would recommend against Saturns for Boston driving because in accidents they total extremely easily. True, you'll likely be unhurt, but you'll also be out a car. I have friends that got burned after what they thought were (or should have been) minor accidents.

[umbran.livejournal.com]

My Lady has had her Saturn for a couple of years, and it hasn't needed anything other than the standard routine oil-change and tire-rotation kind of maintenance. In addition, the fact that the folks at Saturn dealerships are generally friendly, fair and open about their practices and policies, and not terribly sales-aggressive win them points, IMHO. After an unfortunate run-in with a tree, it needed a mirror replaced, but it didn't cost any more than I would expect for any new vehicle.

Power and acceleration are, IMHO, overrated due to typical American impatience. Boston traffic or no, waiting a few extra seconds for a wider opening won't hurt anyone. Especially when the extra cylinders you use to get power put a spear through your gas mileage. Gas isn't really going to be getting cheaper any time soon, and the world is not making more for us to use. Burning less of it is probably a good thing all around.

[msmemory.livejournal.com]

I'm not as aggressive a driver as jducoeur, but I do value having pickup when merging onto the interstate during rush hour.

But you're right about conservation of our resources, too - that's part of why I'm considering an alternative-fuel vehicle like the Prius or Civic Hybrid.

hybrids

[outlander.livejournal.com]

Point to ponder: when I was researching civic's, I came across the fact that the battery in a hybrid costs upwards of 8000 to replace. May not be true, as I heard it word of mouth and not at a dealership, but you might want to look into it.

Of course, if the battery goes within the first few years, it would be under warranty anyhow...

It is also supposed to take up a large amount of trunk space...again rumor, but worth considering.

[whispercricket]

castalusoria (I was in a game with her at Intercon) has a review of her fairly new Prius in her journal. You might find it useful.

I really want my next car to be a hybrid (although I'm not planning to get a new car anytime soon).

going to hybrids

[hungrytiger]

For me, I'm thinking that the car after next will be a hybrid (we're buying a new car now and expecting that we'll probably have to get another one in +/- 3 years). I'd consider one now, but the only models on the market are still compacts. The car mag buzz is that hybrid models of the mid-size cars like the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry are expected in about two years.