msmemory_archive | Recruitment vs high standards

Recruitment vs high standards

This is a half-developed notion. I have this theory percolating around my brain that the SCA's recent higher standards in many areas are in fact a barrier to recruiting new members.

Thinking back, when I joined the SCA, it was very much a do-it-yourself group. Nobody minded if you made a polyester velour tunic, or made a surcoat out of brocade curtains from a yard sale. We all politely ignored the pickle bucket armor, webbing folding chairs, and nylon tents, instead collectively imagining ourselves lords and ladies in samite and fur, living in bright pavilions, sitting on thrones. College students, young adults, and the poor could feel welcome, for their fantasy was just as good as anyone else's.

These days, all the trappings are available to anyone with enough money. You want turnshoes, sheepskin bedding, snowy linen robes, shiny armour? Just plunk down enough dollars and Poof! instant status. That random 19-year-old scholarship student, who would have been a shabby but respected herald in 1982? Well, now he's just shabby.

We've recreated class differences, and based them on modern incomes. No wonder we aren't bringing in or retaining the peripheral, young, or poor members who historically have been the SCA's lifeblood.

ETA: I'm not claiming innocence here either: I am at least as guilty as most of spending my "look! no kids!" income on finery while that early garb molders in the attic.

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Expand the idea. Is it not just the high level of the cost of the trappings but also the high level of what qualifies as "good" and "period" - at least in some activities.

Admittedly I've seen and sat through some stuff that reminds me the SCA is still a pretty friendly place to perform or make things that will embarrass the heck out of you years down the road but... It strikes me that entry level has been kicked up a notch where before borderline sucking but trying was more fun.

Yes, please, continue, elaborate.

I do worry that we set the bar high for all kinds of things - even as simple as what dishes to bring to the Falling Leaves potluck. Which may make us better informed and better scholars, but not more hospitable or attractive.

On the other hand, we would be attractive to a different subset of students, although, granted, probably a smaller subset.

I wonder if this is going on in groups that are 1: not in a large metro area and 2: not one with a lot of colleges and universities?

I don't know that that is true. I think the serious scholars still wouldn't touch us. The students who are mostly D&D/fantasy readers who make up many of our prior borough recruits (of which coincidentally I was pretty much none but I came in after college and thought the girl in college who did SCA was an odd duck although for many, many reasons...) wouldn't be as attracted to us necessarily. You're left with just the detail driven subset of the latter group - maybe.

There are places with a low bar to entry and training readily at hand - I suspect Commedia is one. However, there aren't those goofy short plays anymore for people who don't do improv. And lord knows I haven't seen any of those borderline period feasts in years or heard much filk around here.

If I came into Carolingia now, I don't know if I would be as interested or if the feelings of inadequacy would get to me. As it is, I'm old enough to be able to say "good enough". However, the most visible people in Carolingia are very period and interested in maintaining the illusion of the event being in an actual time to an extent that our visible personages weren't in the past. Patri was extremely period, but it stopped at the edges of himself and he could cut loose (or as loose as he got) in very non-period ways like a set-up sword fights in the middle of the feast.

For some people being period and the illusion of reality is the fun part. For some it's just part of it. In that sense, stress over bringing a good enough potluck dish or cotton t-tunics can be real if the implicit message is that they're not good options.

However... How does that play out in the rest of the kingdom? I don't travel that much anymore, but Stonemarche sure doesn't play like us. How are their numbers?

PS - by goofy I'm not hearkening all the way back to the Eugenie/Marian creativity but rather just some of the shorter, comic ones we used to do.

Being a stonemarchian.. our numbers have come and gone. We seem to have a small recent resurgence.. but I know the university numbers dropped almost to none, and a lot of the newbies arriving seem to be people moving in from other areas.

There has also been a lot of long time members leaving... some of them due to a rash of politics and some due to an admitted being tired of the aforementioned "its not period enough. You are not good enough."

When many of us have discussed this up here, we felt it seems to be more of an academic versus serviceble aspect.

It is/was becoming too expensive and too critical, and many of us did not have the time or money to invest in it as others seemed to have.

taking only your example or the difference between carolingia and Stonemarche for examples I can use...and perhaps as reasons for a sliding membership...

Many of us liked the more eclecticness of Stonemarche that seemed more friendly and homey and simple. Many have simpler personas than Carolingians. Perhaps this also has to do with the fact in real life we live a lot differently as well. For example events in carolingia are a closer proximity to their members where our events in our own Barony are a lot more distanced. We cant run the same kind of various kinds of get togethers as Carolingia has had in the past (ie. dance practices). Simple things like this do make a lot of difference in how we view things.

Not saying carolingia is "bad" but we play very different, as you said, and thats what many of us liked. A lot more easygoing and less judgemental in our members opinions, and yes I have played in both so I do know there is that difference. A lot depends on what a person was looking for. Personal tastes is all...

...but it is put-offing to a new person to try and live up to the standards being set nowadays and everywhere, not just carolingia. The trend has started to arise up here as well. And the fact there ARE people and I have seen this personally who come up to simple but nice newbie garb which is 10 foot good looking and proceed to rip it apart (stiches arent right. fabrics not right. the pleat would not be there. etc etc.) and this is not in a nice way. Some people claim these are urban legends but I have seen it in actual action.

Do I have an answer? no. But it is interesting food for thought for everyone.

>Not saying carolingia is "bad" but we play very different, as you said, and thats what many of us >liked. A lot more easygoing and less judgemental in our members opinions, and yes I have >played in both

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but please consider that you may be tarring every Carolingian with the very same great big brush.

In a group this size, we certainly have our share of clueless people, know-it-alls, crabs, and goobs. So does Stonemarche (I know this for certain, because I too have seen it in actual action :-). So do all our other neighbors.

It is easy to stay home and talk about what is wrong with "them" vs. "us", but writing off an entire group seems unfortunate, when there are so many wonderful opportunities for friendship and neighborliness throughout the Known World.

In addition to the types of folks you mention wishing to avoid, we also have many warm, easygoing people who do their best to be welcoming and pleasant. Many are eager to share their interests and knowledge, no matter where you live. They would love to hear about and share your experiences, too! Sometimes these kindred spirits are a bit harder to find. It may take a little extra effort, but I hope you will look just a little deeper and seek out new friends everywhere you go. I think that you will be richly rewarded.

Looking forward to meeting you sometime soon, good lady!
Johanna

Yes.. I know the tarring aspect comes with the comment (just in as much as we get the northern country redneck cousin comments a lot), which is why I tried to buffer it.

I do know lot of good people in your barony too (ms. memory and her husband justin, heather, crisovau, other whose names I just cant remember) and I am not saying the aforementioned in the previous post tarred people are bad either. they just prefer to play differently. Your Baron would have a heart attack if he were to go to every Stonemarche event... lets be honest! ;-)

but if this can turn off a large group of people in generality, some of these things might also be a contributor to why new college people dont want to join in such droves. Too much like school just is not as fun to one who is still in it. As a few of carolingia members of old have pointed out in this discussion the atmosphere is different now then back then... how that can be fixed I dont know. But its not just there... its in stonemarche too.

but trying to get it back to the original...

Even up here I have started to see the push towards having to have to finery, keep up with the neighbors, get the fancy awards, get everyone to become peers in training... not saying any of this is bad in any one aspect... but put a lot of it together and it gets exhausting and the proclivity of certain peoples to over extend their advice and comments and behind the scenes political power plays. And up here it has even degenerated into some really bad feelings amongst various group members.

this has caused a downturn in established and useful group members, and not enough competent willing people to take over which again causes its own strife.

This is one of the things that bogged down the UNH group is no one competent willing to run it for many years.

But things ms memory is saying are things i have mentioned in the past, at least to her husband at some point, so I am glad she brought it up for discussion. Its a very good discussion no matter where you are.

>I do know lot of good people in your barony too
And I know plenty of good ones in your barony :-)

>proclivity of certain peoples to over extend their advice and comments
I think that it is usually meant in a good way. Sometimes I think it may be an overreaction to those "nobody talked to me" comments we also get from time to time.

>behind the scenes political power plays.
Uggh. I hate politics. I just want to play with my friends.

>so I am glad she brought it up for discussion. Its a very good discussion no matter where you >are.
Yes!

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Seriously not trying to started a Baronial war! ;-)

Re: Seriously not trying to started a Baronial war! ;-)

;-)

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